Single actions

[StonerStudent]

Ok Buckshot.......you been asking for it......and now your going to get it!!!!!! ;D

Lets talk single actions .....one of my long time wants is a six shooter [old timey] I want it to be pretty... nickle or SS and I going to put either stag or ivory grips on it [most likely Eagle gunfighters].....so my question is this

Ruger or one of the clones?

[Bulldawg]

The Ruger Vaqero line is built on Blackhawk frames, so I wouldn't exactly qualify them as true clones. They're much heftier than the "old timey" single actions, and they just don't balance the same, IMO.

However, Ruger has recently introduced the New Vaquero line with "Sturm, Ruger’s slimmer pre-1962 “XR-3” style grip frame and a smaller cylinder frame with a unique reverse indexing pawl, which positively aligns the cylinder with the loading gate cutout for easy loading and unloading of cartridges."

I think this will appeal more to those who prefer the more traditional, less brick-like single-action revolvers, and I may just have to pick one up.

[Buckshot]

SS,

For knocking around and my few attempts at deer hunting in Ohio, I have 2 5 1/2" Ruger Super Blackhawks (.44 Mag). in blue.

These are both "New Model" revolvers with transfer bars so safe for carry with 6 rounds.

For Cowboy Shootiong, where I wanted to be able to really work with the single actions I got a Remington 1890 clone for my right hand and a Traditions Colt clone for my left hand.

I also have a Uberti/Cimmaron clone of an early US issue Single Action. Charcoal blue, black powder frame, RAC stamped grips. I MAY have this bass ackwards (working from memory) and RAC may be the military inspector for the Span-Am War Artillery Mods and my clone may have the other set of initials on it.

All of these are "Old Style"single actions with a firing pin mounted right in the face of the hammer and should always be treated as "5-shooters" for safety.

That is your first main choice, 5-shooter or 6-shooter.

The second is feel. I owned a Vaquero, and it just did not feel good in my hand, so it is history. The Super Blackhawks feel ok (the short barreled ones have the round trigger guard like a Blackhawk, but it is steel instead of aluminum for more weight). The Colt and Remington clones feel ok so they stay.

The next thing to think about is what feels good. IF the Vaquero feels good to you GET IT NOW! As Bulldawg said, they are introducing a New Vaquero. What Bulldawg did not tell you is that the OLD VAQUERO IS HISTORY! This came straight from Ruger on one of the Cowboy Boards I monitor. If you want one of them GET IT NOW!

The New Vaquero will be considerably smaller and lighter than the Old Vaquero. All fo them are New Model revolvers and OK for 6 rounds.

Be aware, also, that clones are slowly drying up. No non-transfer-bar revolvers (traditional single actions) will be made in the US any more due to product liability (except for Colt, but who can afford them?) so they all come in from Italy.

Italy had 3 plant producing them. Aldo Uberti, Armi San Marco and Armi Pietta.

Armi San Marco got bought up by an American company and got tied up when the American company went belly up. No production out of them under their own name. They have been linked (no proof) with Traditions or USPFA but no one is sure.

Beretta bought Uberti when Aldo Uberti died. Beretta just came out with a single action in their name (see current American Rifleman) and it has a transfer bar type system. I don't think this looks good in the long run for Uberti clone production.

THis leaves only Armi Pietta in production of the old style under their own name with no outside influence pushing on them at this point.

I like stainless in double action revolvers and have had and shot nickle DA revolvers in the past. I DON"T like nickle or stainless in traditional single actions. It is OK on the adjustable sight versions (rear and front blades usually blue on them even on stainless revolvers) but with the fixed, rounded sights it makes the shiny materials VERY HARD get a sight picture with.

What calibers are you considering?

Buckshot

[StonerStudent]

I'm trying to pick between 38/357 and 45 LC, I tried out a new model Ruger 41/2 SS and liked it alot.

[Buckshot]

SS,

Are you talking about the new small Vaquero?

4 1/2" barrel I would guess would be a birds head grip?

Have not known you long enough to know where you are on hunting, but not legal for hunting becasue hunting requires a 5" or longer barrel. Both cartridges would otherwise qualify.

The .357 Mag. is cheaper to shoot. The closest "real" cartridge from that era would be the .38 Short Colt and then the .38 Long Colt.

Back then most cartridges had close to the same velocity (becasue of the black powder), their power was regulated by the WEIGHT they threw at that velocity.

REAL western combat cartridges threw 180 gr. (.38-40), 205 gr. (.44-40) 230 gr. (.45 Schofield) or 255 gr. (.45 Colt). Yes, you can pretty much match any of the original loads for power with the .357 Mag., but you can't do it with a "period" load. The period load would be a 95 gr. or 105 gr. load for the .38 Short or Long Colt.

Having said that, I went with the .45 Colt. "I carry a .45 cause no one makes a .46!" John Wayne, I think, in one of his movies?

Buckshot

[StonerStudent]

Actaully it had the plow handled grip, I got to hold both the new and the old model together. And I must say the new grip and smaller frame felt better. As far as caliber goes I'm thinking more about 38/357 simply because it would be cheaper to shoot. But I'm torn with the period caliber thing [45lc].......

[Buckshot]

SS,

Glad to hear that you got a chance to check out both kinds of Vaquero. Now you know you didn't miss anything!

Do you reload?

If you don't then the .38/.357 is only cheaper to shoot if you can find a commercial reloader (getting harder and harder to find as loads get more sophisticated and liability problems go up and up) handy. This availability is also dropping becasue few police departments use them any more so no one produces them.

If you do reload then the .38 bullets are about $0.012 each cheaper than the .45. You MAY save that much on powder, but I doubt it. Primers are the same price, no matter the size.

The old wisdom that the .38 brass is easier to get hold of and cheaper in once fired than anything else also no longer applies since most police departments have dropped the .38 Special.

New brass shows .38 spec. @ $0.085, .357 Mag @ $0.0885, and .45 Colt @ $0.111. .38 Short Colt shows at @ $0.09 and .38 Long Colt @ $0.091. All Starline.

So .45 Colt brass costs $0.0225 more each than .357 Mag and $0.026 more each than .38 Special.

So, at best, .38 Special is going to be $0.05 each cheaper than .45 Colt. That is with all new components. Used caes will reduce the cost by almost half.

You CAN afford to shoot the .45 Colt if you want it.

Buckshot

[StonerStudent]

Well I just looked at factory 38 spl [wolf] and factory 45 LC which ran about 8.00 and 23.00 a box of 50 rds.

[Buckshot]

SS,

I WILL NOT use Wolf, or any other steel case ammo in any firearm deisgned for brass cases. May be paranoid, but I just won't do it.

I have used Wolf in 9 X 18 and 7.62 X 39. I do not perfer it in either of those applications, it was not accurate for me.

I would compare a more equivelent grade of .38 Special to the .45 Colt to get a fair idea. Something with reloadable brass cases.

Also, while you have never said what you would use the single action for, remember that cowboy shootin requires total lead bullets, no jackets, no gas checks and no plating. I doubt that you can get that from Wolf either.

Buckshot

[StonerStudent]

I'm not sure what I going to do with it....other then shoot it alot. I may try Cowboy action but I'm just looking to round out my shooting at this point.

[robertgarner]

For targets and games pick the caliber you want
else you will end up with two or more likely more!
For cowboy or period correct go with the colt clone
with the firing pin on the hammer (they look the best
anyway)
If you ever contemplate hunting Rugers are the only
viable choice
Shoot the MOST gun you can,it may the the actor that
saves you one dark stormy night!
The only caveat to this is that
The top ranked winners in CAS shoot the .38
just becouse you recover and shoot faster
all but one of my revolvers starts with a .4 !
robert garne
occupied georgia

[StonerStudent]

Well I have been watching the Deadwood series, and that pretty much what started all this in the first place. And I would really like to go with a Ruger S/S in 45LC but I like to shoot alot and don't reload........


Why don't I reload you maybe asking...........i'll blow myself up

[Buckshot]

SS,

Can you cook from a recipe and have eatable food come out as a result? If so, you can reload.

WHY would you blow yourself up?

Do you not follow directions well? Do you just HAVE to go where no one sane has gone before? I just don't understand your statement.

You can look around in a couple of loading manuals and make perfectly OK loads THAT YOU WON"T LIKE TO OR WANT TO FIRE!

So, why would you need to work out of bounds with something else to do the same thing?

Buckshot

[StonerStudent]

Buckshot said:

SS,

Can you cook from a recipe and have eatable food come out as a result? If so, you can reload.

WHY would you blow yourself up?

Do you not follow directions well? Do you just HAVE to go where no one sane has gone before? I just don't understand your statement.

You can look around in a couple of loading manuals and make perfectly OK loads THAT YOU WON"T LIKE TO OR WANT TO FIRE!

So, why would you need to work out of bounds with something else to do the same thing?

Buckshot

1. NO ....

2. NO.......

3. And the most important reason.......I'm not allowed to play with tools.....

[StonerStudent]

All BS aside the main reason is just having a few bad experices with reloads [other peoples] has kind of turn me off to them. One was a really fun with a sqwib load and a WWII STEN gun......luckly for me it was the last round in the mag!!!!!!

Some day I will sit down and learn.....and stop being a big ....you know