|
Post by Wayne on Jan 11, 2005 22:41:11 GMT -5
Shun guns and go with the democrate way of thought? That we should relay on others for protection?
Here are my thoughts:
1. The police aren't made to protect you as was made clear via the SCOTUS. We are on our own.
2. What is it with the victimization(sp) aspect? That we are too "queer, lazy, etc" to protect ourselves?
3. Yes, we are more liberal (not me) about things but why would we follow a group that would take away our best means of protection from us? And how/why do we put up with it?
Not to include anything that may become racial or taken the wrong way but it took the African American community with guns and a heart of attitude (spunk) to go to the schools, drink from the same fountains, and ride in the front of the bus. They were armed and were full of power and want. Yet, like us, even today they would give up what they fought with.
Forgive me but sometimes I get so fed up with all the whining, the complaining, the horror of being bashed but that doesn't contend with the horror that I get (or the bashing) when I mention, buy a gun and learn how to use it.
We have to figure out, why do we have such an adversion to gun ownership and gun use? Hey, I am the "female" of relationships but I take my gun ownership and self protection as serious as any man.
What say you on the subject.
Wayne
|
|
|
Post by StonerStudent on Jan 11, 2005 23:23:17 GMT -5
Because Wayne......we can hide, thats what we have all learned from the first day we knew we were different than the str8s. Hiding is our first line of defense, its what keeps us from [in our minds] losing jobs, family, friends etc. The other groups [women, blacks etc] can't hide themselves so they have had to fight. And how many have heard other LGBT run down those who refuse to hide.....TG's,Drag queens,leather folk that stand out from the rest of us.
|
|
|
Post by Kacer on Jan 12, 2005 8:18:59 GMT -5
Because Wayne......we can hide, thats what we have all learned from the first day we knew we were different than the str8s. Hiding is our first line of defense, its what keeps us from [in our minds] losing jobs, family, friends etc. The other groups [women, blacks etc] can't hide themselves so they have had to fight. And how many have heard other LGBT run down those who refuse to hide.....TG's,Drag queens,leather folk that stand out from the rest of us. Might have something there, Stoner. `Course I've refused to hide, I rarely "get in one's face" either, I'm me, it eventually becomes apparent who I am, if an employer doesn't want me, it's their loss, not mine (Yes, I'm that good Never been fired yet (except the one time where I "orchestrated it" (long story ) but NOT because I was gay Also never had a problem defending myself including once when I was "jumped" outside of a gay bar, and another time when I was harassed outside of a gay-friendly bar (the jerk was drunk - otherwise I MIGHT have had some trouble w/him ) And I REFUSE to "run down" any group besides bigots and occasionally zealots
|
|
|
Post by Wayne on Jan 12, 2005 22:59:56 GMT -5
I will admit that I don't let on at work, I do my job, get along with everyone, and just do a d**n good job (yes, I'm that good also ). But, (and my boss knows or suspects) I am me when not going to a job so I can work to pay some bills. We don't have any gay bars in the area that I know about (and it's "tolerate Eugene OR") and it's still a "bash to bash" gays. I hate the way that I am looked at as a "kook" when I mention self defense from those who are whining about this or that (and some getting the hell beat out of them) but if (when, it was a joke) I brought up becoming a member of MMM then I was "god" at that time with the greatest idea in the world. The last time I was at the University of Oregon, having a "fun feast" thing (I still have no idea what it was) and sitting around drinking our coffees the subject of what is the future of us. Of course the major that was voted down (gay marriage) was brought up but then gun control was made a subject. 99% of the folks in the room wanted gun control to gun bans and I was the only one to bring up that we can be secure and not be bashed but I was voted down and out of the forum. I am still trying to understand why they reacted that way. I tried to start up a local PP chapter, all I had that were interested were straights. I don't know if they wanted to be involved because they had a guilt thing going or really cared, but no GLBT wanted to join. Okay, I'm just going on and on here, no need for that. Just wonder what I need to do besides slap the folks upside the head and get some sense in them! Wayne
|
|
|
Post by StonerStudent on Jan 13, 2005 3:59:28 GMT -5
I know what you mean Wayne........I get the "THAT'S NOT VERY QUEENIE "bs from most the gay men I know when the subject of guns and knives comes up. Funny though I'm real popular when somebody needs to walk out to their car from the bar Try this.....get away for the University crowd and try reciurting the lesbians [working class, not hippy] they are made of heartier stock. ;D As a matter of fact I got one grrl I know into Spyderco knives [ATR] after one trip to her first gunshow. Just remember folks.....nothing says F##KOFF to rude people [bashers] like cold steel
|
|
|
Post by compulsive269 on Jan 13, 2005 15:41:50 GMT -5
Yup, cold steel especially stainless in the light of a full moon, the one in the sky, can really get a message across. I've had three instances that just showing the idiots that I had a gun saved me from beatings or maybe death. Firearms can and do stop more crime without ever being fired. I just can't understand the thought pattern from victims. Maybe they just can't believe their going to be beaten or killed. I don't get it! Respect is something that must be taken, at times, instead of earned or given freely. Go figure!
|
|
|
Post by nualle on Jan 17, 2005 4:57:07 GMT -5
Some of us can hide. Some of us can't. I was pegged as queer by lots of folks, including several straights, long before I knew I was bi. (Okay, so I was both repressed and clueless!)
Anyway, I think this victim mentality is deep in American culture. Americans like to think they're all about rugged individualism... but just listen to the fundies ascendant whine and moan anytime they think they're being persecuted -- as, f'rinstance, when someone suggests taking "under g-d" out of the pledge of allegiance.
That's part of it.
Some of us not being able to hide is perhaps another part of it.
And still another is... face it, we're outnumbered. If every GLBT in the country were armed and mentally ready to defend themselves when threatened, we'd be a formidable force. We'd also still be crushable. The number of armed and (at least potentially) aggressive bigots would still be greater. We *need* social legitimacy just as badly as we need self-respect.
The anti-gun folks think legitimacy is bought by playing to the pity of the majority. They're dead wrong, but I think that's what's motivating their position.
I agree with compulsive269; respect is earned and demanded, not begged for.
|
|
|
Post by Kacer on Jan 17, 2005 7:38:12 GMT -5
The last time I was at the University of Oregon, having a "fun feast" thing (I still have no idea what it was) and sitting around drinking our coffees the subject of what is the future of us. Of course the major that was voted down (gay marriage) was brought up but then gun control was made a subject. 99% of the folks in the room wanted gun control to gun bans and I was the only one to bring up that we can be secure and not be bashed but I was voted down and out of the forum. I am still trying to understand why they reacted that way. Wayne, IMO, the reason they"reacted that way" is that if confronted with the TRUTH, the majority of people begin to THINK....once they begin to THINK, they become less plyable, this is "bad" for the gay leadership. They'd MUCH prefer, IMO (most of them, anyway) to have sheep they can lead, because most could NOT handle a "herd" of sheepdogs. Also w/sheepdogs, they'd be less apt to have a good martyr every 2-5 years they can "hold up" and say, "See what is done TO US" .... ;quote] I tried to start up a local PP chapter, all I had that were interested were straights. I don't know if they wanted to be involved because they had a guilt thing going or really cared, but no GLBT wanted to join. Okay, I'm just going on and on here, no need for that. Just wonder what I need to do besides slap the folks upside the head and get some sense in them! Wayne[/quote] And, IMO, you are less likely to be successful in the "University" crowd.... I gotta agree w/Stoner on that one. And at the first planning meetings it WAS me (lesbian) and 5 or sometimes 6 straight guys. This was April, May and June. 2003. In July we had over 20 people show, only 5 were straight. The straight folk helped pass out flyers and generally get us going. They were friends, or at least developed INTO friends. If I'm drowning, I don't care WHOSE hand reaches out to pull me up, I just take it. IMO, forming a chapter is the first step, this then garners publicity, which reaches other like-minded queers which grows the membership. The COPP group is a full 1/3 straight. Some are Jewish, others have friends or family who are gay, one guy just likes teaching individuals to shoot - ANY individual. In his mind (rightly, IMO) the more PEOPLE who are armed, the safer society as a whole.
|
|
Tweak
Junior Member
Posts: 42
|
Post by Tweak on Jan 17, 2005 20:52:07 GMT -5
don't feel bad, most straights don't use guns either.
|
|
Trisha
Junior Member
Posts: 35
|
Post by Trisha on Jan 18, 2005 9:04:18 GMT -5
My approach to this comes from a different angle: who first empowered GLBT politics? Our community was and is heavily funded by socialist democrats. In return, many in the community blindly submit and become a dependable voting bloc for their keepers.
How to change that? As I have no delusions of grandeur nor megalomania I recruit. I've posted personal ads in lesbian pages with a profile and such with the ad content stating I seek new friends to explore slef-defense, that I'll informally teach what I know without constraint - just bring a background check (NCIC is fine) and sign a waiver of liability.
In the past five years I've connected and succeeded with four women who were rabidly anti! That's not ging to change anything quickly - but it works. They've all moved on, and two correspond with me about their delight in bringing new girlfriends to the dojo and/or the range!
That we have a community at all sees us vulnerable to falling into compliance with those we enjoy as simple friends and aquaintences when en masse. It takes something extra to wear any pro-gun pin or patch in our social gatherings but unless we do it consistently and without other extension of pressure (as casually as I wear a pin that says "I dress this way to bother you!") we aquiesce and fail.
The nightmare of being socially ostracized is very real. It has teeth. There are risks, no sure forgiveness for faux pas, and everything to be gained.
Trisha
|
|