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Post by Kacer on Jan 25, 2005 18:23:59 GMT -5
okay... this has been bugging me since I found OUT what "Molon Labe" (apparently pronounced: mo-lone lah-veh) actually MEANS. (2-3 days ago). Hey, I was familiar with the HISTORY, just not the "saying". What I can't get my head around is: Does ANYONE else find it odd that a "group" that is... about 50% (give or take 20%) anti GLBT... (gun nuts) frequently invoke a saying of a group that was almost ENTIRELY dominated by gay men? (The Spartans). I just... find that... odd, is all. But then, I guess maybe that's kinda silly, seeing as how the Republican Party's "founder" Abe Lincoln was also gay... and by in large the POLITICIANS in the Republican party tend to be anti-gay.... Is anyone ELSE seeing a pattern here?? Or is it just me? And yeah, I know the whole "deal" regarding that there was "no such designation" as a homosexual "back then" BS. But they LOVED men, the did the nasty WITH MEN, let's not pick nits just because they weren't "oppressed" eh? They WERE gay, you are a man, you love men, you find men attractive, you do the nasty w/men -you're GAY. Today's "designation" sure. But THEY didn't have a "word" for it, WE do. What can I say? These things just bug me sometimes Irony?? Yeah. Edited to add a link to the Molon Labe explanation: Molon Labe!
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Post by compulsive269 on Jan 25, 2005 20:50:11 GMT -5
Thanks for the history lesson Kacer. I must admit all the rest of the stuff went over my head, sort of. I mean, I get the gay Spartans and all and I sure hope I had a great time cruising the baths back when I was surely there. But, how do we know they didn't have a word for it? Maybe the word was not derogatory or a put down cause if it was the accuser would most likely meet his favorite god in the spirit world post hast. Also, I might add that history is written by the winners, so who knows what A. Lincoln's sexual preference really was. History is so distorted people can't even agree about the bible cause maybe that was distorted from the very beginning like so many other events of the past. I think one way to describe folks is that they can't see the truth of things for their own beliefs.
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Post by Kacer on Jan 25, 2005 21:19:24 GMT -5
I get what your point is. But there was no word for "gay" because it was just normal. The Spartans in particular thought it was killer normal. Historians haven't identified any records that would dictate that a word existed, but if it was just romantic love, it was (the word for romantic love) between Steve and Phil - period. And I'm sorry, I WAS just sorta leaning toward Abe bein' family, but NOW I'm 100% (okay, maybe 99.98%) certain he was... heck, even those who WERE (credible)detracters of the concept have pretty much admitted that he was AT LEAST Bi, if not "gay". Of course the RRRR would NEVER concede that he was. Fortunately they are no longer credible except amongst the truly stoopid [sic] OR the truly brainwashed.
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Post by QuarterBore on Jan 25, 2005 22:25:50 GMT -5
but but but I thought all the Spartans were long haired manly men that slew their enemies and then made manly completely vanilla straight love to their beautiful diaphanous gowned wives?
YOU MEAN THE MOVIES LIED?!?
The fact that some of the most revered icons of the RRRR were gay is conveniently forgotten or denied; mustn’t sully the fantasy with reality. Total buzz kill.
I don’t really have a point other than, yeah, I know what you mean- it is bothersome.
Though I did try once to explain ‘molon labe’ to the wife and she totally got it. Except she applied it to her Prada shoes.
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Post by Wayne on Jan 26, 2005 0:32:04 GMT -5
I think that many people of our history, weren't totally truthful in the history books.
The way I see it, who cares what a man (or women) is, but what did they do to further our future for the best.
Wayne
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Post by compulsive269 on Jan 26, 2005 5:57:03 GMT -5
Ditto Wayne, but through who's eyes do we see? I do like the idea of Abe being family. I don't suppose he was a moderate of sorts? We moderates get picked on a lot. A gay moderate, doesn't that just warm your heart?
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Post by StonerStudent on Feb 3, 2005 21:46:44 GMT -5
Don't forget my favorite......the father of weapons design Leonardo D Vinci ;D
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Post by Kacer on Feb 5, 2005 15:53:47 GMT -5
I've "heard" he was, but haven't really seen the "evidence" about DaVinci... so I'm still "out" on THAT one, but Abe WAS, and the Spartans WERE. Unless it is proven that the cited documents were fakes, my mind won't be changing anytime soon.
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Tweak
Junior Member
Posts: 42
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Post by Tweak on Sept 13, 2005 23:26:14 GMT -5
I'm not saying the Spartans didn't have sex with other men bc that would be fallacious but I think calling them gay (sexually attracted) to men is a bit strong. At most they were bi by government intervention. The early Greeks at least understood that there are many forms of love and kept most of those separate.
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Post by StonerStudent on Sept 13, 2005 23:35:16 GMT -5
I think that "gay" proably wasn't a big issue for the Spartans [or Romans] because they understood that "what you have sex with" doesn't make you any different. To the Spartans fighting was the measure of a man....not what he had sex with.
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