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Post by StonerStudent on Jan 1, 2005 19:39:36 GMT -5
Who here supports or thinks that hate crime laws are going to really help the LGBT be safer? IMO hate crime laws are not going to do anything to make us any safer. And will actually make the problem worse, by giving everybody that false sense of security. Ref the Don't ask Don't tell bs which has now gotten more queers thrown out of the military then ever before.
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Post by Kacer on Jan 1, 2005 20:02:04 GMT -5
Who here supports or thinks that hate crime laws are going to really help the LGBT be safer? IMO hate crime laws are not going to do anything to make us any safer. And will actually make the problem worse, by giving everybody that false sense of security. Ref the Don't ask Don't tell bs which has now gotten more queers thrown out of the military then ever before. This is where _I_ tend to be at odds w both l(L)ibertarian friends as well as more tha a few "gun folk" (Who, granted TEND to be more "conservative", generally speaking - by-in-large. Do I think ANY law will EVER "protect" ANYONE - heck NO! However, I _DO_ think that "mugging someone" because they were "handy" at the time isn't QUITE as bad as "mugging someone because they are: gay/black/white/disabled/Jewish/Christian/Muslim/Hindu ++++ whatever". ASSUMING we can "prove" THAT is the MAIN "push" for doing the crime in the first place (which is likely ONLY "proveable" when talking about REALLY, REALLY stoopid [sic] (confess that's why - IE Matt Shepard murderers) criminals, OR "serial criminals" who through DNA/Eyewitness/confession whatever... have ONLY robbed/bashed/raped/whatever, "X-group". JMO, OMMV. |
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Post by Big Gay Al on Jan 1, 2005 20:27:16 GMT -5
The problem I have with hate crime laws is they rely on the idea of "Thought police." In other words, unless the perp utters something in the commission of said crime to indicate the reason. And I was the victim of a "hate crime" many years ago. I just have a problem with laws that have to determine whether someone was killed/beaten because of their skin color,sexual preference,religion, or country of origin. As it is, I think that laws against assault should be the same in any case. I also think that in general, perhaps the penalties should be stiffer across the board to discourage such action, regardless who the victim is. But that's just my opinion.  |
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Post by Kacer on Jan 1, 2005 21:50:33 GMT -5
The problem I have with hate crime laws is they rely on the idea of "Thought police." In other words, unless the perp utters something in the commission of said crime to indicate the reason. And I was the victim of a "hate crime" many years ago. I just have a problem with laws that have to determine whether someone was killed/beaten because of their skin color,sexual preference,religion, or country of origin. As it is, I think that laws against assault should be the same in any case. I also think that in general, perhaps the penalties should be stiffer across the board to discourage such action, regardless who the victim is. But that's just my opinion. I'm with you on the "stiffer penalties" Al. And who has to read minds? IF the laws are written properly, it should be just like ANY other crime. PROOF = CONVICTION, NO PROOF = Goes FREE (at least on THAT count). "Gee, the victim was gay... but s/he wasn't leaving a GLBT establishment, doesn't "look gay" (whatever THAT means ), the offender didn't say, "DIE [expletuive]!" or anything similar that would INDICATE they KNEW the victim was gay, didn't know the victim.... guess we can nail them on THAT." OTOH. "Gee, the victim was gay, leaving a VERY publicly known Gay Bar, is a "flamer" and the offender yelled (repeatedly) "Die [expletive meaning gay man]! DIE!!, heard by 2 witnesses as they rushed to assist the likely victim." NAILED add 2-10 years. DONE, NO Q! |
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Post by StonerStudent on Jan 1, 2005 22:09:02 GMT -5
Unforantly they [bashers] just stop calling people fag while beating/killing [like the film producer in LA] OR recant like the two scumbag who killed Shepard and beat the hate crime rap.
Better to just double tap them in the act.
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Post by Kacer on Jan 1, 2005 22:23:01 GMT -5
Unforantly they [bashers] just stop calling people f*g while beating/killing [like the film producer in LA] OR recant like the two scumbag who killed Shepard and beat the hate crime rap. Better to just double tap them in the act. Again, I agree. I'm a FIRM believer in the "double tap". And yeah. IMO BOTH the Matt S. MURDERERS should have just gotten "ye ole doubletap". But alas, M.S. was (apparently) not "into" firearms ... otherwise the bigots could be vilifyinng him in a DIFFERENT way... at least he'd likely be alive |
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